Comments on William W. Birch: Saturday Devotion: The Public Invitation and Calvi...

@ric...please don't label your false view of c...

2012-02-04T22:11:37.115-05:00

@ric...please don't label your false view of calvinist on all reformed guys.We preach to all men knowing God will save some.We do not know Gods elect,so we preach to all.As for prayer,we pray to glorify our father,not men.We pray and exalt God as far as our minds allow us,who can exalt God how He should be exalted.As for finney,do your home work and even read some of the statements from other men who labored next to him for many years and see the statements they made as they would go back to the cities and visit with the thousands who made a profession of salvation,one man said there was not a single person he found that was bearing fruit unto repentance.Our theology must dictate our methodology,and when you believe and teach a false theology you must develop a false methodology to sustain the movement.Ive searched for many true denominations,many true theology and doctrines.And if i truly did not believe historic southern baptist(reformed theology )was the biblical truth and teaching i would not contend for it.But because i know the spirit of God dwells in his children and guides them in all truth ,i have full assurance in the biblical truth of the bible and the reformed men of the past

Preach on, brother Robert, preach on!

2012-01-30T16:38:24.235-05:00

Preach on, brother Robert, preach on!

Hello Billy, Regarding altar calls. The bible is...

2012-01-30T16:24:41.204-05:00

Hello Billy,

Regarding altar calls. The bible is abused by some people, does that lead us to throw it out completely? Anything can be abused and done wrongly. But if our hearts are right and we want to see others come to Christ to be saved and become believers, then why should we be against an altar call if done properly?

I have observed that who are most against altar calls, are never effective evangelists. They are not leading others to Christ, not discipling others, they have become mere critics. I have seen many come to make a profession after an altar call, does that mean that all are saved persons or that all will remain faithful believers? No, but Jesus told us as much in the parable of the Sower (that the word would go out and there would be different responses to it).

Rather than being **critics** and theologizing about altar calls, I would like to see these same critics leading others to the Lord and then discipling those who have come. If they are not leading others to Christ and not themselves discipling new converts, they have no credibility and should be given no credibility.

Oh and by the way, I know both Calvinists and non-Calvinists who do effective altar calls, so this is no “Arminian” thing. I also hope that these critics make no inroads within Baptist circles, because Baptists know better than to be listening and respecting the opinions of these critics.

Robert

How on earth can Calvinists critique the altar cal...

2012-01-29T18:44:58.179-05:00

How on earth can Calvinists critique the altar call for being "only a few hundred years old" when Limited Atonement was only ever taught publicly in the church at most from c. 1500...? I asked a young-disciple-Calvinist (i.e. only recently getting drawn into that belief) at Church that if Limited Atonement is so obviously biblical (even in light of all the universal statements in scripture), why did the universal church take about 1500 years to discover it and preach it, and why did the earliest Church Fathers like Justin Martyr not even hint at it? He had no answer (and I prayer he thinks it through seriously).

Boy, I remember "Just As I Am" being pla...

2012-01-28T17:33:50.316-05:00

Boy, I remember "Just As I Am" being played over and over and over again at the end of the service in my SBC days.
(I guess we Anglicans have an Altar Call of sorts when we go forward every week to receive Holy Communion.)

DT

William, I think you and I could pastor together ...

2012-01-28T11:16:40.168-05:00

William,

I think you and I could pastor together without confusing a single soul and preach the same biblical, Christ-centered, God glorifying gospel. Thank you for your insight my brother!!

SLW, That's hilarious. I remember hearing or ...

2012-01-28T11:04:33.982-05:00

SLW,

That's hilarious. I remember hearing or reading that Billy Graham "walked the aisle" when the congregation had already sung through the entirety (all six verses) of "Just As I Am" once. On the second round, he responded and made his faith publicly known.

I've seen abuses of altar calls: highly-charged emotional appeals to "accept" Christ. Then again, I've heard highly-charged emotional messages by John Piper and other Calvinists (Chan, Chandler, Driscoll) which are equally as guilty. But do Calvinists balk at that? Nope. Instead, they harp on the altar call. Please.

WWB, You may have changed my mind about altar call...

2012-01-28T10:57:05.716-05:00

WWB,
You may have changed my mind about altar calls! ;-)

Preaching is a public proclamation which calls people to follow Christ, and public response is certainly biblical, and helpful. OTOH, playing "Just As I Am" for the umpteenth time until uncle Henry mercifully walks the aisle to receive Christ for the 40th time and allow everyone can get to lunch before 1 is not.

Paul, I agree about the sermon needing to be gosp...

2012-01-28T10:42:07.126-05:00

Paul,

I agree about the sermon needing to be gospel-centered, brother! I've heard some bizarre sermons and wondered where was Jesus. Oy!

From many of "the altar calls" I've heard, I wish more time were spent explaining in detail what the individual is being called to. Often times, the "altar call" time is done merely by rote, with everyone assumed to understand what is going on. We shouldn't be so presumptuous.

When I was a Calvinist in a PCA church, the pastor did not give an altar call for many of the same reasons offered by Calvinists with an agenda on this issue.

However, in his sermons, a response was almost demanded of everyone, whether saved or unsaved, by the manner in which he spoke. It was brilliant, really. His messages could command a response without having to literally say, "Okay, now we're going to have a time of response while we sing this hymn." That takes some hard work.

William, Great post! I must admit that as Calvini...

2012-01-28T10:12:48.726-05:00

William,

Great post! I must admit that as Calvinist I don't always do an altar call per se, however, I do use it most of the time. I guess my only problem with the altar call is that many preachers use it by giving the "gospel presentation" at the end of a sermon when the entire sermon should be gospel centered. I do believe that we as preachers of the gospel should always ask for a response to the gospel since by virtue of a person not responding he/she is already saying "no" to Christ. And trust me, I know how "crazy" some Calvinists can be these days. They have quickly and conveniently forgotten great preachers like Spurgeon, Whitfield, Broadus, etc... They seem to believe that is is simply enough to preach information, but that is just lecturing. True gospel centered preaching ALWAYS calls for a response as we preach repentance and faith in Christ. Thanks again. I'm going to repost this for my Calvinist friends.

Rick, One word: wow.

2012-01-28T09:40:05.152-05:00

Rick,

One word: wow.

The rejection of any altar call by Calvinists is a...

2012-01-28T07:21:31.931-05:00

The rejection of any altar call by Calvinists is a red herring and is another example of inventing self righteous arguments. Of course the altar call can become stale and traditional, but that in no way means it is unbiblical. They claim to be free of “methods” and yet they eagerly head to the voting booth which is not only a method, but is also a method in which unbelievers participate along side believers in an effort to wash the outside of the culture cup without the gospel.

And in reference to your other post, I find that most Calvinist churches grow with converts from other churches. In an effort to be sanctified in their “evangelism” they many times have none, except to evangelize Arminians. And since their view of prayer is nothing more than a perfunctory attempt to align themselves with what God has already done, it is most hollow and predictable and practiced sparingly.

Everyone uses methods. The church building, advertisement, invitations to church, youth programs, children’s ministries, and many other things are methods which technically have no Scriptural foundation. And other than pastors and elders, where does Scripture teach the church to pay people with God’s money to do tasks like outreach leader, administrator, secretary, music leader, sound system operator, Sunday School director, and a long line of other things that could easily be done voluntarily? Visit MacArthur’s church and you will see a well oiled machine that operates every bit as a business, or in reformed parlance, a giant ecclesiastical method.

And as I have mentioned before, men like Whitefield and Edwards and others from that era acted much differently than the modern Calvinist bunch. And although Finney’s doctrines tended toward the “exotic”, his ministry affected tens of thousands at a time before modern communication technology. I find the criticism of Finney to be especially telling since he would have been their champion had he been a Calvinist. If we all subscribed to the John Calvin “method” of evangelism perhaps the church would have died out long ago.

We Arminians have many flaws and challenges. Liberalism and the Osteen genre among them, but we are interested in missions. The Calvinist conception of missions is to try and go where it is already raining, while our view is to bring rain to parched souls. And as one who was saved under Billy Graham’s preaching (I know, that monster of compromise and Shueller-loving scoundrel!) God uses altar calls in many different situations. The continuing effort to suggest that your evangelism is Biblically pristine and void of human instrument is nothing more than spiritual taxidermy.

Spiritual taxidermy: Legalism stuffed with self righteousness and hung on a doctrinal big game wall so as to be admired by all men. The big problem is that with all taxidermy the things are dead.