Comments on William W. Birch: Fabricating Hays, Updated ... Again ... and yet Ag...

Ed Oh, now this is typical. The Calvinist argum...

2012-02-03T10:43:17.543-05:00

Ed

Oh, now this is typical.

The Calvinist arguments and objections against Arminianism -- you know, the anachronistically orthodox view of the early Church fathers prior to Augustine in the fifth century -- have been answered and defeated repeatedly. The holy grail of determinism is just far too precious to part with. Determinism is one of the last remaining pieces of idolatrous thinking that progressive sanctification removes.

You see how that works?

Rick, Why am I NOT shocked to hear that Arminians ...

2012-02-03T10:39:52.924-05:00

Rick,
Why am I NOT shocked to hear that Arminians rarely discuss theology while Calvinists are villified for doing so. The best way to refute Steve Hayes is with some facts. How about it...anyone have any facts? And to compare movement from A to C, to movement from evangelical to JW or Morminism is a fool's game. Hayes it correct. The Arminian arguments and objections against Calvinism have been answered and defeated repeatedly. The holy grail of libertian freedom is just far too precious to part with. Libertarian freedom is one of the last remaining pieces of idolatrous thinking that progressive sanctification removes.

Robert, Thank you, and I'm in agreement with ...

2012-01-30T14:57:40.913-05:00

Robert,

Thank you, and I'm in agreement with you entirely. Thank you for your conclusion as well, brother! I will not waste any more of my time with Hays' ludicrous, fanatical mess. Thanks, yet again, for the reminder.

God bless!

Hello Billy, “Oh, you are certainly correct. I us...

2012-01-30T14:42:24.438-05:00

Hello Billy,

“Oh, you are certainly correct. I usually don't take the time to respond to him. Usually, I just shake my head, sometimes laugh, and carry on with my life. Others times, however, I want others to know -- including his little posse -- what a complete hypocrite with double standards he tends to expose himself to be.”

Regarding Steve Hays I don’t see him so much as a hypocrite (says one thing but does another), though at times he definitely is hypocritical and inconsistent. No, I see him as perfectly fitting the description of the fool described in the book of Proverbs. He fits that description there very well.

And we need to keep in mind Hays’ actual life circumstances. He lives with and takes care of his ailing mother (just about the only commendable thing he does with his life). He is not a pastor, or elder, or local church leader of any kind. So he has no credibility as a bible teacher. He is also unmarried and childless. ALL THAT HE DOES is spend hours and hours posting on the web at various websites including his own site. He sees this as his “ministry”. He shows no evidence of leading others to Christ or discipling others. For me this means he is not a person to be respected or emulated in any way. He has no credibility for those of us who have real world ministries and commitments. For those of us who are leading others to Christ and discipling new converts to the faith.

And you should keep in mind his life circumstances because if you do have real world commitments, then you should not get into any sustained interaction with him on the web. He has hours and hours to post when we don’t.

So you may choose to read his twisted and emotional diatribes and attempt to glean something from them (little is to be gleaned as he constantly lies and twists things and repeatedly misrepresents those with whom he disagrees), but it is a mistake to get into any sustained interaction with him. And from his history, Calvinist theology appears to be his god, as he will do anything to defend Calvinism.

From the perspective of character, he does not manifest mature Christian character or godly behavior at all. He is one of the most arrogant and hateful professing Christians that I have ever seen (hence there is doubt in the minds of some as to whether or not he is regenerate).

Regarding the deconversion of his good friend Michael Sudduth, this must drive him nuts judging by the amount of attention he has given this and written about it. But then Arminian blogs like this one must drive him nuts as well judging by the sheer number of attacks upon Arminianism lately at his blog. No one holds him accountable and he is quite unrepentant in his sinful verbal behavior when posting. Perhaps rather than interacting with him or wasting time with him we ought to pray for him.

Robert

Hays is high on philosophy, inept at theology, and...

2012-01-30T12:53:57.207-05:00

Hays is high on philosophy, inept at theology, and has, for the last four years I've been reading his posts, not yet shown evidence that he is regenerate. I pray that changes before it's everlastingly too late.

Oops, looks like we baited him instead.

2012-01-30T10:33:00.651-05:00

Oops, looks like we baited him instead.

It is obvious that Hays is a moralist judging by h...

2012-01-29T19:08:53.452-05:00

It is obvious that Hays is a moralist judging by his pictures of inappropriate dress and his information about the sin of homosexuality. Thanks, who knew?

And I noticed an article about the Judeao-Christian morality which is a myth and man made. But I also noticed the article was written by a professor at Notre Dame University. I guess Roman Catholic heresy stops at the door of moral agreement. Perhaps hays would be happy to endorse the Manhattan Declaration?

Whatever happened to Toatl depravity? And how can a totally depraved sinner have any kind of morality? I love the puzzle piece theology which forces pieces to fit whenever they deem it convenient. Even we Arimaians know that fallen morality is no morality at all.

Very interesting connection ...

2012-01-29T18:31:20.591-05:00

Very interesting connection ...

There's just something in the Hays group which...

2012-01-29T18:20:12.690-05:00

There's just something in the Hays group which mirrors the methods of the New Atheists... Maybe we should start calling them the Neo-reformed or the New Calvinists.

" I don't think too many of us want to bo...

2012-01-28T20:25:16.566-05:00

" I don't think too many of us want to bother playing his game."

It breaks up the monotony. It also challenges me to find new and creative rhetoric with which to describe Calvinism. It also provides me with a way to exhibit God's determinism which directs me to refute Calvinism.

(See, I can't help myself!)

SLW, Oh, you are certainly correct. I usually don...

2012-01-28T19:19:47.337-05:00

SLW,

Oh, you are certainly correct. I usually don't take the time to respond to him. Usually, I just shake my head, sometimes laugh, and carry on with my life. Others times, however, I want others to know -- including his little posse -- what a complete hypocrite with double standards he tends to expose himself to be.

SH has been baiting Arminians for the last few day...

2012-01-28T15:33:17.175-05:00

SH has been baiting Arminians for the last few days. Perhaps he grew tired of instigating arguments with Catholics, Atheists, and Hindus, or maybe he's on a schedule..."last week of January, time to hammer Arminians!" I don't think too many of us want to bother playing his game.

Rick, More evangelicals become Mormons and JW...

2012-01-28T09:42:49.538-05:00
Rick,

More evangelicals become Mormons and JWs than the other way around!

Are you sure you have the polling data, sociological studies, and scientific stats to document this claim, lol? That is a great observation.

Roy, I laughed after I rolled my eyes ; )

2012-01-28T09:41:36.618-05:00
Roy,

I laughed after I rolled my eyes ; )

Many Calvinists worship doctrine and defend it lik...

2012-01-28T06:44:32.859-05:00
Many Calvinists worship doctrine and defend it like the beaches at Normandy. I tell my Calvinist friends that I cannot remember one time, even since Bible College, where a bunch of Arminians believers got together and discussed Arminianism. However Calvinsts often discuss their theology as if they have the Holy Grail.

I must make this observation, William. When you rejected Calvinism in favor of Arminianism you became a doctrinal salmon, energetically swimming againt the current of God's sovereignty! But if it makes guys like Hay uncomfortable because more As become Cs than the other way around, don't worry.

More evangelicals become Mormons and JWs than the other way around!

This one made me laugh.

2012-01-28T00:17:14.608-05:00
This one made me laugh.

It's lame-o.

2012-01-27T21:57:33.353-05:00
It's lame-o.

Bravo WWB. I saw that pithless post.

2012-01-27T21:45:52.038-05:00
Bravo WWB. I saw that pithless post.